Lie Ning: Whispering Queer Intimacy In Your Ear

His latest hot music project, named ‘sweatshop’, was released in November, singing about intimacy, connections, and sex… so trust us, we love it. In an exclusive conversation with Container Love, the adored multi-talented artist and November’s global cover of Spotify Glow, Lie Ning, sat down with us to share his new music and EP, discuss his career as an artist, and talk about queer culture and the importance of inspiring one another.

You first dropped your album ‘utopia’ in April this year, and six months later, we are mesmerized, singing on repeat with your latest EP ‘sweatshop’ released on November 14th. How do you feel about it? 

I was very anxious the day before the release, which… I am usually not.  I think it was because, for me, ‘sweatshop’ is a very personal view on intimacy and physical relationships. In the lyrics, I’m talking specifically about gay and queer experiences in the world of sex, including fetishism and sexualization. So I guess I was very nervous, but I’m so happy that it’s finally out. 

We can certainly hear that, and it’s hot. For the people who haven’t listened to ‘sweatshop’ yet, how would you introduce this EP?

My album ‘utopia’, released earlier this year, was about love, connection, support, and hope. After that, I wanted to explore all of the nuances of my experiences. For example, I really enjoy sexual songs, hip hop, and urban music with vulgar lyrics too. I think it’s strong, especially nowadays, where it feels like many things are again considered taboo. But I struggle using that language for myself, and I wonder why.

So I took half a year to think about all the ways I’ve experienced sex in this world and realized that probably the reason I struggle is that I haven’t had only good experiences. I’ve had quite terrible experiences as a black and queer person. There are stigmas and preconceived notions of how I am supposed to act as a sexual person, so I wanted to fit these feelings and experiences into an EP that also explores new sounds.

That’s very refreshing, especially when navigating the multiple layers of intimacy that we can definitely hear in your new work. I actually chose ‘wow’ as one of my favorite tracks because it has raw and empowering moments but also very soothing ones. What can you tell us about this song? 

Well, the song is about consent. But I didn’t want to be literal saying “hey, we need to be consensual”, but rather show how sexy it is to ask for consent. I wanted to recreate the feeling of a physical encounter in music. Also, because words are super limiting, so saying ‘we could be wow wow’, means we can be anything, for anyone. It’s very expansive and beautiful, with moments saying that “if you say no, that’s fine. We can stop any time, it still makes me hot”. 

Uff… bring that on. Together with ‘sweatshop’, you also released the music video clip of that song. I don’t want to spoil that much so people can watch it, but boy… things are getting hot.

[ Laughs ] So, a big part is footage that we shot on my travels with friends. Spontaneously, we would listen to music and shoot moments that are part of our queer experience, not ever shown because it’s always censored. There are bits of cruising, for example, that we shot in a cruising area in Portugal. But in the music video clip of ‘sweatshop’, we presented it in a way that you can see it if you want, but you can also ignore it.

But also, the visuals are quite unique in this proposal. What was that creative process like?

I have been working with a good friend called Vincent Schneider, known him since he was 18. I really wanted to move away from classical music videos. I was a little bored by this whole thing, like renting a studio and shooting a scenic and beautiful movie for the song. It feels like it’s not really expressive anymore, and I wanted to capture moments in my life that are very true and not showcased as much as the cute little love stories.

You presented two songs of this new EP before the official release. How was the warming-up reaction from your listeners with ‘good good’ and ‘sirens’? Do you pay attention to it?

I do, I am connected to my listeners, at least the ones that follow me online. The reaction was good. I was a little nervous with “good good”, the first one, because, as you said, I released my album in April, and it’s quite different sound-wise. But then everyone loved it, got such beautiful feedback. Then ‘sirens’ with Mulay… I knew that I wanted to work with her, I’m obsessed. She’s a good friend, but also just an incredible musician. Her voice on anything is just…

Also it was an experiment because “good good” is fun, entertaining, a song about the beauty of intercourse. But then “sirens” is about non-consensual sex and violence. So I was like, are people going to understand the dynamics between both? And yes, it’s doing well, and people really love it. 

It is really interesting to navigate through an EP the multiple layers and aspects of intimacy that can be really different emotionally from each other. When you mentioned ‘sirens’, you also brought up violence, is there a correlation with your personal story?

Yes, for sure there is. The song ‘sirens’ is inspired by a German fairytale called Lorelei. I wanted to try talking from her perspective, the way she has been sexualised and objectified, among other things. As a black person, I have faced many times people attracted to the color of my skin or my complexion. There are all these ideas of what I am packing and how I behave in bed, and so on. I wrote about this when I was very young, in one of my first songs, which I also took as an inspiration for this track, to look at the same things with a new and fresh perspective. Sometimes healing can be very beautiful, and I tried to use that song.

You have been selected as the global cover of Spotify Glow playlist during November, a hub dedicated to amplifying LGBTQIA+ artist around the globe. How does it feel representing the queer community among artists?   

It feels incredible. I’m just happy to share that space and platform with so many incredible artists. I think I’ve been called a spokesperson for the community for so long, but I always felt a bit weird about it. I didn’t always find my audience within my community, which sometimes felt bad. But now this platform is not just about me being a queer person, but also about good music. Listening to the playlist, I really enjoy it because there’s so much great music that otherwise I would never find. That is because we, as queer people, still don’t get all the support that we should get and receive.

Connecting that to something that I’ve heard you say in previous interviews, the moment that you stepped into the music industry, one of the first things that you heard from a producer was basically something like “we love what you do, but keep your queerness out of this frame”. How do you see that moment now in retrospect?

It makes me angry. Especially knowing that is still the situation, and there are other artists having to face this. Whatever I’m doing now, I am always trying to work with people who join because they believe that we can create something new. People who believe we can change something, rather than just making cash. Because that’s usually the driving force for assholes to be assholes. 

Agree, and it is always refreshing to hear the commitment from artists as we have to support one another.  Has it been a predominant topic throughout your career to find queer communities and their support?

For sure. I mean, those are safe spaces. We share so many experiences that other people don’t necessarily have, so it’s always such a beautiful space to relax and not have to explain yourself and why you are the way you are because that’s just your upbringing, which is the product of all the experiences that we make. Also, queerness is so different all over the world. So traveling and meeting people with completely different experiences and views on this world are so necessary. I would never want to stop learning from that.

I see it sometimes as a big chain of sources of inspiration. Yes, we have made progress, but there is still a long way to go. So any single aspect, such as seeing a queer artist on the cover of Spotify Glow being outspoken and unapologetic about queerness, is really inspiring, and you don’t even know how many you might be able to touch.

Oh yeah, and vice versa. How many people have inspired me. I have learned so much from the people who listen to my stuff and come to my shows. to big queer influences such as Antony and the Johnsons back in the time, I was obsessed. They sing about such huge topics, and as a teenager, I didn’t even understand what it was about. Or when Woodkid came out, he immediately turned into a huge inspiration, as I found it so sexy to have a pop star with a  rather lower voice because I feel like most pop stars have a very high-pitched voice. Then I also love all the ‘classical heroes’ that are so androgynous like Prince and Bowie.

It has been a pleasure talking about your career and latest EP ‘sweatshop’, so thank you in the name of Container Love. To close this conversation Lie Ning, maybe you can invite all Spotify Glow listeners around the world to discover your new music?

Definitely! Beautiful people, my name is Lie Ning, and my new EP “sweatshop” is out now. You can listen to it on Spotify or discover the Spotify Glow playlist. I hope you love it because I love it, and I love you. Thank you to Container Love as well for this conversation. 

Talent Lie Ning,  Photography Anil Ayhan, Words Javier Zamora-Kalazich